Governments must pay up
I was interested in the line of thought that when there are multiple crises faced by governments or societies, that is when new ideas and radical policies which otherwise wouldn't be palatable are implemented. It's the same or similar to the phenomenon that is described in Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine, in times of chaos and collapse it's the ideas that are lying around at the time that get implemented, for better or worse. Disaster Capitalism has use this feature in it's favour many times over the past decades.
I'm just finishing Jon Alexander's Citizens, and at the end he points to three possible futures, The Autocrat Totalitarian, The Techo-Feudal and the Citizen, any of which could become the reality.
I suppose what both of these viewpoints show is that there are many conflicting narratives out there, and the mission for those of us who would like to see an ecologically balanced and equitable future, is to take advantage of these liminal chaotic times to push for those ends.
Great interview as always. With people as articulate as Laurie Laybourn, Kate Raworth and many others on this podcast arguing the case for a sane world, it gives one hope.