I think Up/Down is a more transparent way of thinking about power than Left/Right. No matter what philosophical justification one uses (human nature etc.), outsourcing the decision making process to a wider community enables power to become pooled. When communities recognise this dynamic (indigenous) they enable social systems to resist the pooling of power and the narcissistic tendencies of humans. Our "community" encourages the pooling of power.
Seeing as both our "Left" and "Right" models are really about dispersing wealth in an extractive and growth based economic model, they both have similar power models, despite their apparent opposition to each other. So, we end up being offered two apparently oppositional political systems both using the same power model, which obviously, is a bit of a con to say the least.
Until we realign the dominant value system to the needs of the least powerful we'll always be on this roundabout of left/right /whatever.
Yes, absolutely, the left right thing is nonsense. We need to get away from the whole 'power' thing being a thing. We should go back towards living egalitarian lives if you want any chance of social justice. This requires learning the skills of dialogue and not 'decision-making' but decisioning as life is an evolution of ideas, not a win-lose and then remain in 'power' concept. Whenever organisations or the military want to achieve a lot with a little, they create 'Special Project' teams or 'Special Forces' but all they're doing is living and operating as small hunter gather tribes, who are egalitarian.
Many good thoughts here. I think about human behavior all the time. That is the root of the climate crisis, 6th Extinction, and chemicals and plastics that fill our bodies. The aggression of Right wing thinking fails to recognize the finite nature of the planet, and sees life as survival of the fittest. Life has indeed been survival of the fittest, but the next leap in human evolution must be to recognize the necessity for cooperative behavior if we're to survive. With 8 billion people and growing, it's imperative. However, it's just possible the Right sees the brink of disaster as an opportunity. It's a disturbing thought I explored here. Thanks for the good article. https://geoffreydeihl.substack.com/p/circumstantial-evidence
I want to call out that the timeline on privatization of land is off as well. This piece frames privatization as inherent in settling (ie moving from hunter-gatherer to agrarian society) but the notion of "private land" didn't exist until the beginning of capitalism. Sure, in Europe before capitalism, there were "kingdoms" which had boundaries, but residents/serfs still collectively worked the land and were able to harvest the fruits of their labor in doing so. The whole narrative that privatization of land came with agrarian society is inherently a pro-capitalist (Right) narrative, completely ignores history before it's inception, and exemplified in capitalists' erasure of that history.
Left and right can also be seen in terms of competition over the distribution of power. Throughout history, the "conservatives" and "reactionaries" have attempted to conserve and reestablish concentrations of power (as with warlords, kings, dictators and plutocrats), and "liberals", "progressives" and "radicals" have attempted to increase the distribution of power (with guilds, assemblies, legislatures and perhaps now collaboratives commons). This goes all the way back to the origins of patriarchal command and control societies about five or six thousand years ago. This view is largely obscured by the taboo against #talkaboutpower, described here: https://bit.ly/48rkWar
Conservatives and progressives today would both be considered extreme radicals 200 years ago.
While there may appear to be a long-term historical trend toward greater distribution of power, it's not evenly occurring around the world, can be seen to be reversed even in "liberal democracies", and has no guarantee of continuing.
Another perspective on this is the dynamic of love, power and justice as fundamental human sociopsychological "drives". The Right is stuck on Power (and tramples Love), and the Left is stuck on Love (and is naive about Power) I'm working on the idea that Justice (equality, fairness) may be the balancing factor.
Thank you! this is a brilliant and clear summary of where I believe many people’s minds are at who are looking at the polycrisis and are confused about how to proceed (me included). I just finished reading Tyson Yunkaporta who talks of acceptable violence in aboriginal society (similar to what you describe). The ‘What is Politics Podcast’ dives deep into this subject from an anthropological perspective. Might be worth a listen? https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/what-is-politics/id1472767978
“Since the notion of private property first entered our language as we stopped roaming and began to settle, the Right has cast its shadow over our homes.”
I would recommend you read “The Dawn of Everything” by Davids Wengrow and Graeber.
Our social course is not linear, we didn’t move from non-property to property in early human development. We did a whole bunch of different social structures inside and outside of that binary.
Left v. Right is how the Top divides the Bottom. Yes slogans are dumb but they can be powerful nonetheless. I find this one is easily understood and will stick for most who hear it from a friendly source.
Where do people see the role of Citizens Assemblies in this dynamic?
While neither right nor left in their makeup (one would assume a 50/50 split if the selectors are doing their job) I suspect that outcomes would skew left because they would favour the rank and file and not the ruling class.
This is a bogus discourse, because both the Left and Right serve Capitalism, serve technology and technique. Both also are totally dependent on cheap energy and enjoy a totally wasteful lifestyle.
Maybe we must fire our presidents, gouvernements, senators, parlements and political parties. We should vote for ideas instead of people. The ideas with most votes will be put in place by civil servants. A commission of people, who were drawn and are in function for a short period of time, make sure the civil servants do wat they are supposed to do.
Human beings like most animals and chickens too spontaneously create pecking orders. And, unfortunately in the case of human beings they dump their shit, both psychic and chemical (etc) on to those at the bottom of the hierarchy who get to live in the middle of vast chemical and oil-refining landscapes where toxic chemicals pervade the water, air and the soil too.
If by whatever means the dominant Alpha males (and females too) die or are deposed in one way or another the unconscious pattern that controls any group of whatever size quickly re-arranges itself with new Alpha males and females replacing the dead or deposed.
Perhaps with some similar callings as your words here, which resonate powerfully for me...?
A quote from it, and then will let it speak for itself, as it will, or not... 🙏🌻
“Human community cannot change in the ways it must now, if we are to survive, for as long as we remain separate from these local places where we live.”
I think Up/Down is a more transparent way of thinking about power than Left/Right. No matter what philosophical justification one uses (human nature etc.), outsourcing the decision making process to a wider community enables power to become pooled. When communities recognise this dynamic (indigenous) they enable social systems to resist the pooling of power and the narcissistic tendencies of humans. Our "community" encourages the pooling of power.
Seeing as both our "Left" and "Right" models are really about dispersing wealth in an extractive and growth based economic model, they both have similar power models, despite their apparent opposition to each other. So, we end up being offered two apparently oppositional political systems both using the same power model, which obviously, is a bit of a con to say the least.
Until we realign the dominant value system to the needs of the least powerful we'll always be on this roundabout of left/right /whatever.
Yes, absolutely, the left right thing is nonsense. We need to get away from the whole 'power' thing being a thing. We should go back towards living egalitarian lives if you want any chance of social justice. This requires learning the skills of dialogue and not 'decision-making' but decisioning as life is an evolution of ideas, not a win-lose and then remain in 'power' concept. Whenever organisations or the military want to achieve a lot with a little, they create 'Special Project' teams or 'Special Forces' but all they're doing is living and operating as small hunter gather tribes, who are egalitarian.
Many good thoughts here. I think about human behavior all the time. That is the root of the climate crisis, 6th Extinction, and chemicals and plastics that fill our bodies. The aggression of Right wing thinking fails to recognize the finite nature of the planet, and sees life as survival of the fittest. Life has indeed been survival of the fittest, but the next leap in human evolution must be to recognize the necessity for cooperative behavior if we're to survive. With 8 billion people and growing, it's imperative. However, it's just possible the Right sees the brink of disaster as an opportunity. It's a disturbing thought I explored here. Thanks for the good article. https://geoffreydeihl.substack.com/p/circumstantial-evidence
Great addition to the chat with paddy. Fleshing out some ideas touched on. What happened in Papua? Did I miss something?!
I want to call out that the timeline on privatization of land is off as well. This piece frames privatization as inherent in settling (ie moving from hunter-gatherer to agrarian society) but the notion of "private land" didn't exist until the beginning of capitalism. Sure, in Europe before capitalism, there were "kingdoms" which had boundaries, but residents/serfs still collectively worked the land and were able to harvest the fruits of their labor in doing so. The whole narrative that privatization of land came with agrarian society is inherently a pro-capitalist (Right) narrative, completely ignores history before it's inception, and exemplified in capitalists' erasure of that history.
Left and right can also be seen in terms of competition over the distribution of power. Throughout history, the "conservatives" and "reactionaries" have attempted to conserve and reestablish concentrations of power (as with warlords, kings, dictators and plutocrats), and "liberals", "progressives" and "radicals" have attempted to increase the distribution of power (with guilds, assemblies, legislatures and perhaps now collaboratives commons). This goes all the way back to the origins of patriarchal command and control societies about five or six thousand years ago. This view is largely obscured by the taboo against #talkaboutpower, described here: https://bit.ly/48rkWar
Conservatives and progressives today would both be considered extreme radicals 200 years ago.
While there may appear to be a long-term historical trend toward greater distribution of power, it's not evenly occurring around the world, can be seen to be reversed even in "liberal democracies", and has no guarantee of continuing.
Another perspective on this is the dynamic of love, power and justice as fundamental human sociopsychological "drives". The Right is stuck on Power (and tramples Love), and the Left is stuck on Love (and is naive about Power) I'm working on the idea that Justice (equality, fairness) may be the balancing factor.
Thank you! this is a brilliant and clear summary of where I believe many people’s minds are at who are looking at the polycrisis and are confused about how to proceed (me included). I just finished reading Tyson Yunkaporta who talks of acceptable violence in aboriginal society (similar to what you describe). The ‘What is Politics Podcast’ dives deep into this subject from an anthropological perspective. Might be worth a listen? https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/what-is-politics/id1472767978
“Since the notion of private property first entered our language as we stopped roaming and began to settle, the Right has cast its shadow over our homes.”
I would recommend you read “The Dawn of Everything” by Davids Wengrow and Graeber.
Our social course is not linear, we didn’t move from non-property to property in early human development. We did a whole bunch of different social structures inside and outside of that binary.
Those possibilities are still there.
Left v. Right is how the Top divides the Bottom. Yes slogans are dumb but they can be powerful nonetheless. I find this one is easily understood and will stick for most who hear it from a friendly source.
Where do people see the role of Citizens Assemblies in this dynamic?
While neither right nor left in their makeup (one would assume a 50/50 split if the selectors are doing their job) I suspect that outcomes would skew left because they would favour the rank and file and not the ruling class.
This is a bogus discourse, because both the Left and Right serve Capitalism, serve technology and technique. Both also are totally dependent on cheap energy and enjoy a totally wasteful lifestyle.
Great post, thank you
Um. Earth is a Being. Earth is.
We are The Impact to this Being, Earth. Cease it, Humanity, Humanity.
Now 8 Billion living how ? Well ?
Maybe we must fire our presidents, gouvernements, senators, parlements and political parties. We should vote for ideas instead of people. The ideas with most votes will be put in place by civil servants. A commission of people, who were drawn and are in function for a short period of time, make sure the civil servants do wat they are supposed to do.
Human beings like most animals and chickens too spontaneously create pecking orders. And, unfortunately in the case of human beings they dump their shit, both psychic and chemical (etc) on to those at the bottom of the hierarchy who get to live in the middle of vast chemical and oil-refining landscapes where toxic chemicals pervade the water, air and the soil too.
If by whatever means the dominant Alpha males (and females too) die or are deposed in one way or another the unconscious pattern that controls any group of whatever size quickly re-arranges itself with new Alpha males and females replacing the dead or deposed.
Something I wrote a long time ago, and republished again here more recently:
https://www.johnfridinger.net/p/starting-with-community
Perhaps with some similar callings as your words here, which resonate powerfully for me...?
A quote from it, and then will let it speak for itself, as it will, or not... 🙏🌻
“Human community cannot change in the ways it must now, if we are to survive, for as long as we remain separate from these local places where we live.”