Listen now | Jessie Henshaw is a physicist, architect and natural systems designer who worked with the UN to reframe their sustainability goals. She believes our misunderstanding of natural systems as a whole is what’s gotten us into this mess, and why we may not get out. We discuss how and when growth is necessary, collectivism in systems, and why science’s atomisation of systems in a bid to understand them is impeding the urgent progress we need to make.
Whoa, I really had to park my brain for this conversation.
I thought that you did exceptionally well to keep on top of it.
As to your BIG question... I liked Jessie's perspective.
I would sit in the middle.
Viewing the hyper-consumers, those people who have been allowed too much wealth and power, as a parasitic virus. The rest of us are the commensal organism that they feed on.
It's a fun analogy to play with.
Can the virus exist without the organism?
How does the organism compensate for the needs of the virus?
Thank you, Peter! I very much enjoyed what Jessie had to say and was humbled by her knowledge—it was akin to Alice Friedemann's capacity to pull on multiple threads, seemingly disparate threads!
Interesting to think of billionaires as parasites. Still: what's the system in place that engenders such organization? I think that question is imperative, and removes blame in an increasingly-tense dialogue.
In my opinion, "the system" will inevitably be a dynamic, adaptive and sophisticated (in the full sense of the word) web of other systems.Trying to pin it down may be a futile exercise?
Realisticly though, could someone hold a problematic system to account?
Or do they look for accountability in those who conceived, implemented and benefitted from such a system?
I'd agree with Jessie's perspective about the question of whether it's in our nature to just devour what is available, or to somehow organise ourselves to live sympathetically with each other and the rest of the natural world. As you hinted at, nature is full of examples of symbiosis even going back to when fungi and algae collaborated to form lichen 500 million years ago, before there was any plant-life. Jessie rightly named the theory that humans are just parasitical as a myth, and one that we are consistently sold.
Whoa, I really had to park my brain for this conversation.
I thought that you did exceptionally well to keep on top of it.
As to your BIG question... I liked Jessie's perspective.
I would sit in the middle.
Viewing the hyper-consumers, those people who have been allowed too much wealth and power, as a parasitic virus. The rest of us are the commensal organism that they feed on.
It's a fun analogy to play with.
Can the virus exist without the organism?
How does the organism compensate for the needs of the virus?
How would the organism behave without the virus?
Thank you, Peter! I very much enjoyed what Jessie had to say and was humbled by her knowledge—it was akin to Alice Friedemann's capacity to pull on multiple threads, seemingly disparate threads!
Interesting to think of billionaires as parasites. Still: what's the system in place that engenders such organization? I think that question is imperative, and removes blame in an increasingly-tense dialogue.
In my opinion, "the system" will inevitably be a dynamic, adaptive and sophisticated (in the full sense of the word) web of other systems.Trying to pin it down may be a futile exercise?
Realisticly though, could someone hold a problematic system to account?
Or do they look for accountability in those who conceived, implemented and benefitted from such a system?
I'd agree with Jessie's perspective about the question of whether it's in our nature to just devour what is available, or to somehow organise ourselves to live sympathetically with each other and the rest of the natural world. As you hinted at, nature is full of examples of symbiosis even going back to when fungi and algae collaborated to form lichen 500 million years ago, before there was any plant-life. Jessie rightly named the theory that humans are just parasitical as a myth, and one that we are consistently sold.
Norah Bateson, who Jessie nominated, was recently on Nate Hagen's podcast. Definitely an interesting interviewee!