As ecological economist Robert Costanza pointed out thirty or so years ago, the therapeutic metaphor underlying much discussion of our environmental mess (as it does so much contemporary palaver about social psychology in general) has limitations, and that "ecosystem integrity" might be a more useful terminology than "ecosystem health," the former being perhaps less subject than the latter to anthropomorphic mischaracterization of the natural world. While Blake's "Rose, thou art sick" certainly is apropos in many ways, starting out from an assumption of ecological disability, disease or other medical impairment may not be the best way to frame the issue. Among other things, it may lead to being satisfied with goals of triage or life system support rather than restoration or of natural, pre-trauma states.
The analogy comes to mind of the power games touched upon later in the discussion, of the difference between reformist and revolutionary goals, strategies and tactics, and how being in the hegemony, how we can think and get outside it.
wow, this was such a wide-ranging and sometimes heady discussion. And here are the key bits that really caught my attention: Dead spaces vs. Live spaces, "cushion for collapse", productive class revolt to avoid merely, "another iteration of the same system", the [socio-economic] system perpetuates trauma because it has a relentless need to accumulate, dominate, control, separate. This makes me think of the Wendigo beast story in Ojibwe/Iriquois confederacy nations, the selfish beast that cannot stop consuming. Either Winona LaDuke or Robin Wall Kimmerer (author of Braiding Sweetgrass) would be great to platform on this topic. BTW, RE Collapse patterns, what about platforming Jared Diamond (author of guns, germs, and steel, and also Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. Thanks Rachel for picking great topics/peeps and insightful questions/comments!
What’s missing from all these discussions is the physical connection to other people. Where are the places for us to meet? Where are our churches and public squares? We need the physical infrastructure and weekly rhythms that populate them.
Without that, we are like water that flows in the easiest possible path, we have the internet. We meet here in this social media, it doesn’t make a movement. We listen to podcasts, it doesn’t make us feel less alone. We write articles, it doesn’t make us speak with one voice to demand better from power.
The medium is the message. I'm deeply sceptical of our systems of production and communication being able to express the values you clearly cherish. The whole edifice of law and government, nationally or globally is unfit by its (dis)embodied design to imagine this task. Its like veganism through 6 continent supply chains, or an Empire creating peace in the world through domination.
I think the media and professional classes (those closest to the nexus of power, as Paddy puts it), are uncomfortable with the fact that their work is not only useless to change the system, and useless in a collapse/rebuild situation (which will be inherently local and land based and face to face), but is actively upholding the current genocidal machine (current company not included). The loss of status for this class is unconscionable. I share Rachel's analysis, that they would rather fascism than the hurly burly of peasant life. Which is deeply illogical as peasant life is perhaps the most truly luxurious.
You said it perfectly, that the people experiencing of the unusual suffering to of today need either some certainty, or a vision. I've got both, as you may recall. bit.ly/49jg5YW
I'd love to listen but no time. I'm bent on switching humanity out of its deadening creation story, where we're on a dead rock climbing over each other, to the Universe Story where since Hubble we've known the universe is evolving, a sacred place where we are sacred creatures. I'm flooded with entries to a contest to come up with ideas for what we can do now to turn this world around: "Money is talking louder/ Looking for how to spend it wisely": https://suzannetaylor.substack.com/p/money-is-talking-louder. Great if your you and readers would take a look. I'm after smart people!
As ecological economist Robert Costanza pointed out thirty or so years ago, the therapeutic metaphor underlying much discussion of our environmental mess (as it does so much contemporary palaver about social psychology in general) has limitations, and that "ecosystem integrity" might be a more useful terminology than "ecosystem health," the former being perhaps less subject than the latter to anthropomorphic mischaracterization of the natural world. While Blake's "Rose, thou art sick" certainly is apropos in many ways, starting out from an assumption of ecological disability, disease or other medical impairment may not be the best way to frame the issue. Among other things, it may lead to being satisfied with goals of triage or life system support rather than restoration or of natural, pre-trauma states.
The analogy comes to mind of the power games touched upon later in the discussion, of the difference between reformist and revolutionary goals, strategies and tactics, and how being in the hegemony, how we can think and get outside it.
wow, this was such a wide-ranging and sometimes heady discussion. And here are the key bits that really caught my attention: Dead spaces vs. Live spaces, "cushion for collapse", productive class revolt to avoid merely, "another iteration of the same system", the [socio-economic] system perpetuates trauma because it has a relentless need to accumulate, dominate, control, separate. This makes me think of the Wendigo beast story in Ojibwe/Iriquois confederacy nations, the selfish beast that cannot stop consuming. Either Winona LaDuke or Robin Wall Kimmerer (author of Braiding Sweetgrass) would be great to platform on this topic. BTW, RE Collapse patterns, what about platforming Jared Diamond (author of guns, germs, and steel, and also Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. Thanks Rachel for picking great topics/peeps and insightful questions/comments!
What’s missing from all these discussions is the physical connection to other people. Where are the places for us to meet? Where are our churches and public squares? We need the physical infrastructure and weekly rhythms that populate them.
Without that, we are like water that flows in the easiest possible path, we have the internet. We meet here in this social media, it doesn’t make a movement. We listen to podcasts, it doesn’t make us feel less alone. We write articles, it doesn’t make us speak with one voice to demand better from power.
Ex UN. Well well well. Hmmm. Interesting, yes. Don't Trust him.
The medium is the message. I'm deeply sceptical of our systems of production and communication being able to express the values you clearly cherish. The whole edifice of law and government, nationally or globally is unfit by its (dis)embodied design to imagine this task. Its like veganism through 6 continent supply chains, or an Empire creating peace in the world through domination.
I think the media and professional classes (those closest to the nexus of power, as Paddy puts it), are uncomfortable with the fact that their work is not only useless to change the system, and useless in a collapse/rebuild situation (which will be inherently local and land based and face to face), but is actively upholding the current genocidal machine (current company not included). The loss of status for this class is unconscionable. I share Rachel's analysis, that they would rather fascism than the hurly burly of peasant life. Which is deeply illogical as peasant life is perhaps the most truly luxurious.
You said it perfectly, that the people experiencing of the unusual suffering to of today need either some certainty, or a vision. I've got both, as you may recall. bit.ly/49jg5YW
I'd love to listen but no time. I'm bent on switching humanity out of its deadening creation story, where we're on a dead rock climbing over each other, to the Universe Story where since Hubble we've known the universe is evolving, a sacred place where we are sacred creatures. I'm flooded with entries to a contest to come up with ideas for what we can do now to turn this world around: "Money is talking louder/ Looking for how to spend it wisely": https://suzannetaylor.substack.com/p/money-is-talking-louder. Great if your you and readers would take a look. I'm after smart people!