Listen now | Why putting people before profit is crucial in the battle to save our planet. Economic anthropologist, Jason Hickel, is one of the leading degrowth researchers, writers and thinkers leading the charge for ecosocialism. He says if we limit the energy demands of the elite and hungry multinational corporations, reimagining economics to support and nurture human dignity, we could stay within our planetary boundaries—and lift the entire world out of poverty.
Mar 18, 2022·edited Mar 18, 2022Liked by Rachel Donald
Another really satisfying conversation, thanks Rachel
I followed up on a suggestion from a YouTube commenter and thought that you might also like to have look at the work Sam Alexander is doing. YouTube channel: Simplicity Institute
Incredibly dense with ideas on degrowth, seems very well researched, a little dry in presentation but very interesting.
After listening to his introduction, I'd suggest jumping into the deep end and looking at "A Real Green new deal - Policies for a post growth economy..."
It's always a pleasure to hear Jason Hickel speak so eloquently about Degrowth, a vital concept for our times, both ecologically and socially. He's one of those people that I wish could break through to the mainstream so that his ideas could get a wider audience. I'd also second his nomination of Vandana Shiva for an interview!
Thanks Rachel and Jason. We at JustCollapse, found this conversation very interesting and would like to believe that some of the premises presented were not as flawed as they appear to be. Indeed, we have also argued for a radical degrowth and a "just" collapse that returns the human ecological footprint to limits and planetary boundaries.
We feel the argument presented by prof. Hickel is flawed on a number of accounts however a few issues stand out more than others -
1) Towards the end of the interview Jason makes the point that the working class must align with ecosocialist values which will simultaneously be adopted by both the environmentalists and the labour movement and implemented in global accord. Doing so requires a global eco-socialist revolution that cannot be effected in a meaningful timeframe regardless of how dedicated we eco-socialist activists might be, but also, this revolution is politically unacceptable to the prevailing aspirational zeitgeist of the working class. A planned Degrowth cannot be democratically implemented, but will, inevitably, occur by disaster, rather than design.
2) Let's be clear - Jason didn't adequately respond to the energy problem raised early on in the interview as identified by both Hagens and Friedman. The "renewable" (not) energy which Jason hopes will support this eco-socialist degrowth revolution, requires long global supply chains of extraction and processing that serve effectively to maintain the ecocidal status-quo - "business as usual by alternate means" to quote prof. Rees co-creator of ecological footprint analysis.
3) Supported by Hickel, the nonsense spouted by prof. Steinberg as to how 10 billion humans can live "sustainably" on a planet with rapidly decreasing carrying capacity is risible. This empty-headed rhetoric flies in the face of the original Limits To Growth analysis recently verified by Gaya Herrington.
In final analysis : The eco-socialist revolution required to implement Jason's degrowth is politically impossible to implement in a meaningful timeframe and, requires the maintainance of the same omnicidal civilisational complex that has given rise to our overshoot predicament, of which climate collapse is but one of many symptoms. Our vastly degraded, and ever-decreasing carrying capacity, cannot support the extraordinary number of humans that already exist, let alone, the 20% more claimed by Steinberg, and supprted by Hickel.
As opposed to Degrowth's intellectual originator, founder of ecological economics - Georgescu-Roegan, in reality, prof. Jason Hickel's narrative is, like that of Kallis and Steinberg, essentially eco-modernist - both delusional and dangerous as it effectively serves to maintain the status-quo, inflicting the same systemic ecological and social violence inherent to both globalisation and colonialisation, that degrowth purports to solve for.
Another really satisfying conversation, thanks Rachel
I followed up on a suggestion from a YouTube commenter and thought that you might also like to have look at the work Sam Alexander is doing. YouTube channel: Simplicity Institute
Incredibly dense with ideas on degrowth, seems very well researched, a little dry in presentation but very interesting.
After listening to his introduction, I'd suggest jumping into the deep end and looking at "A Real Green new deal - Policies for a post growth economy..."
Cheers!
It's always a pleasure to hear Jason Hickel speak so eloquently about Degrowth, a vital concept for our times, both ecologically and socially. He's one of those people that I wish could break through to the mainstream so that his ideas could get a wider audience. I'd also second his nomination of Vandana Shiva for an interview!
A live discussion tonight 2nd Sep 2022, with Jason Hickel, facilitated by Kate Raworth.
Degrowth vs. Green Growth!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxJrBR0lg6s
Thanks Rachel and Jason. We at JustCollapse, found this conversation very interesting and would like to believe that some of the premises presented were not as flawed as they appear to be. Indeed, we have also argued for a radical degrowth and a "just" collapse that returns the human ecological footprint to limits and planetary boundaries.
We feel the argument presented by prof. Hickel is flawed on a number of accounts however a few issues stand out more than others -
1) Towards the end of the interview Jason makes the point that the working class must align with ecosocialist values which will simultaneously be adopted by both the environmentalists and the labour movement and implemented in global accord. Doing so requires a global eco-socialist revolution that cannot be effected in a meaningful timeframe regardless of how dedicated we eco-socialist activists might be, but also, this revolution is politically unacceptable to the prevailing aspirational zeitgeist of the working class. A planned Degrowth cannot be democratically implemented, but will, inevitably, occur by disaster, rather than design.
2) Let's be clear - Jason didn't adequately respond to the energy problem raised early on in the interview as identified by both Hagens and Friedman. The "renewable" (not) energy which Jason hopes will support this eco-socialist degrowth revolution, requires long global supply chains of extraction and processing that serve effectively to maintain the ecocidal status-quo - "business as usual by alternate means" to quote prof. Rees co-creator of ecological footprint analysis.
3) Supported by Hickel, the nonsense spouted by prof. Steinberg as to how 10 billion humans can live "sustainably" on a planet with rapidly decreasing carrying capacity is risible. This empty-headed rhetoric flies in the face of the original Limits To Growth analysis recently verified by Gaya Herrington.
In final analysis : The eco-socialist revolution required to implement Jason's degrowth is politically impossible to implement in a meaningful timeframe and, requires the maintainance of the same omnicidal civilisational complex that has given rise to our overshoot predicament, of which climate collapse is but one of many symptoms. Our vastly degraded, and ever-decreasing carrying capacity, cannot support the extraordinary number of humans that already exist, let alone, the 20% more claimed by Steinberg, and supprted by Hickel.
As opposed to Degrowth's intellectual originator, founder of ecological economics - Georgescu-Roegan, in reality, prof. Jason Hickel's narrative is, like that of Kallis and Steinberg, essentially eco-modernist - both delusional and dangerous as it effectively serves to maintain the status-quo, inflicting the same systemic ecological and social violence inherent to both globalisation and colonialisation, that degrowth purports to solve for.