Anyone who thinks that JSO's tactics are too annoying, should read History for Tomorrow by Roman Krznaric. In it he outlines cases from the abolition of slavery to women's right to the vote, where without the 'radical flank' these steps to a more equal world may never have happened. As Pasha says here, the goal is to move the Overton window, not to gain public support.
The majority of the World’s billionaires aren’t worried about Climate Change. They believe that their wealth will secure their future and their children’s future. Their greed and selfishness are the kryptonite of mankind. To hold onto their wealth and power they are buying the governments of countries that have a democracy.
I noted twenty or more years ago that we would eventually reach the “shoot the messenger” stage of responses to the ecological and climatological crises and science. Once we start to pass through the too difficult to deny, ignore or ridicule stage then violence is the next ready-to-hand weapon in the political and economic toolkit. Sadly Schopenhaur’s overly cited claim still seems applicable here. “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
We are starting to move through the period of denial, distraction and greenwashing to what Ugo Bardi has termed the time of “greenbashing”. Not that many Earth systems scientists and environmentalists haven’t already been the targets of stochastic terrorism, I just won’t be surprised if it gets much, much worse going forwards. If you don’t like the weather, then bash, imprison or shoot a meteorologist or a climate activist seems to be the logic.
I thought Just Stop Oil must be funded by the oil industry, as all they do is annoy the public with idiotic protests. While I agree the punishment is excessive in the extreme, Just Stop Oil need to change their tactics to bring the public on board.
The development of parallel decision making bodies in the form of citizens assemblies is for me perhaps the most important development as it will provide an engaged and functioning system that can take over when the inevitable happens and government collapses as an institution. Interestingly, such an event would release local authorities who would be more free to use these channels to meet the challenges of such a situation.
We could be lucky, of course, and a dying government might see the benefit of embracing deliberative and transparent democracy as a way of staving off chaos and attracting a little kudos for having done so.
Just not sure which of these alternatives is the fantasy....
How do we as human beings stand as real, ignorant, steadfastly curious, working for the greater good? Radical Democracy is vulnerable. The powerful, and their actors are found out everyday, whittling away at Democracy, corrupting systems of and for the greater good. COP29 is now an Oil deal cooperative? I suppose I will simply stand for these truths.
I venture to say that Pasha will continue to have limited impact in promoting his ideas and significant impact in annoying people.
If I understood correctly, the "real democracy" he is talking about would involve people agreeing with his world view. And the only possible reason they do not agree with his world view today is because the powerful (billionaires and/or fossil fuel) brainwashed them by buying off the press and disseminating whatever message they want. And this is particular prevalent in the West.
If he is so dispirited with the West and its democratic institutions, I invite Pasha to pursue his "non-violent" protesting in either China/Russia by blocking a highway or Saudi Arabia by throwing soup on the statue of MbS. He can also try Pakistan by tying himself to gates of one of their newly built CCGTs. And see how well that goes for him.
The climate warming is real. There are many organisations that aim to promote awareness in a more persuasive and less patronising way. For instance, I suggest you have someone from the Climate Action Unit at UCL (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/climate-action-unit/about-us).
It's not just youth that is ignored its everyone. We live in an increasingly authoritarian Police state and there was only ever a theatrical show of "democracy" in the UK. Eastendersc Westminster Edition is purely for entertainment. Sadly the lessons of history point to how reluctant those in real power are to relinquish control and it never happens peacefully, and even when it does happen its usually a temporary thing and Capital regains control ultimately. I think they know we are in the climate and overpop7lation endgame and are just extracting maximum assets during the controlled collapse. I also think those at the very top now realise that they no longer need cannon fodder or large numbers of workers due to advancements intechnology and robotics and so would gladly facilitate as massive depopulation of earth and return it to their ideological " Garden of Eden" state with just their select few chosen elites and a few essential lackeys to do their bidding. I am an optomist but sadly don't see any peaceful or happy ending for humanity as this perpetual cycle repeats again. The only small chance I guess is to enlighten everybody to what is actually going on and motivate them to act beyond their own short term blinkered self interested existence of surviving hand to mouth on a daily basis. I guess our hopes lie with you young people spreading the word, but I fear much more drastic actions will be necessary and even then it may be too late for most. This may in the very long term be beneficial for other life on this planet once humanities toxic legacy has had time to be cleansed by Gaia. Good luck, if I can help in a meaningful way let me know, thanks Simon
Anyone who thinks that JSO's tactics are too annoying, should read History for Tomorrow by Roman Krznaric. In it he outlines cases from the abolition of slavery to women's right to the vote, where without the 'radical flank' these steps to a more equal world may never have happened. As Pasha says here, the goal is to move the Overton window, not to gain public support.
The majority of the World’s billionaires aren’t worried about Climate Change. They believe that their wealth will secure their future and their children’s future. Their greed and selfishness are the kryptonite of mankind. To hold onto their wealth and power they are buying the governments of countries that have a democracy.
I noted twenty or more years ago that we would eventually reach the “shoot the messenger” stage of responses to the ecological and climatological crises and science. Once we start to pass through the too difficult to deny, ignore or ridicule stage then violence is the next ready-to-hand weapon in the political and economic toolkit. Sadly Schopenhaur’s overly cited claim still seems applicable here. “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
We are starting to move through the period of denial, distraction and greenwashing to what Ugo Bardi has termed the time of “greenbashing”. Not that many Earth systems scientists and environmentalists haven’t already been the targets of stochastic terrorism, I just won’t be surprised if it gets much, much worse going forwards. If you don’t like the weather, then bash, imprison or shoot a meteorologist or a climate activist seems to be the logic.
I thought Just Stop Oil must be funded by the oil industry, as all they do is annoy the public with idiotic protests. While I agree the punishment is excessive in the extreme, Just Stop Oil need to change their tactics to bring the public on board.
The development of parallel decision making bodies in the form of citizens assemblies is for me perhaps the most important development as it will provide an engaged and functioning system that can take over when the inevitable happens and government collapses as an institution. Interestingly, such an event would release local authorities who would be more free to use these channels to meet the challenges of such a situation.
We could be lucky, of course, and a dying government might see the benefit of embracing deliberative and transparent democracy as a way of staving off chaos and attracting a little kudos for having done so.
Just not sure which of these alternatives is the fantasy....
I wait with great anticipation
to hear Rachel present interviews
like this one. The long list of ideas
brought to conversation enriches
my understanding of the Universe.
I wait for you, as if waiting for a dear friend
Vulnerable,
How do we as human beings stand as real, ignorant, steadfastly curious, working for the greater good? Radical Democracy is vulnerable. The powerful, and their actors are found out everyday, whittling away at Democracy, corrupting systems of and for the greater good. COP29 is now an Oil deal cooperative? I suppose I will simply stand for these truths.
I personally think the disconnect by the young is the sole reason why we are now having these problems
I venture to say that Pasha will continue to have limited impact in promoting his ideas and significant impact in annoying people.
If I understood correctly, the "real democracy" he is talking about would involve people agreeing with his world view. And the only possible reason they do not agree with his world view today is because the powerful (billionaires and/or fossil fuel) brainwashed them by buying off the press and disseminating whatever message they want. And this is particular prevalent in the West.
If he is so dispirited with the West and its democratic institutions, I invite Pasha to pursue his "non-violent" protesting in either China/Russia by blocking a highway or Saudi Arabia by throwing soup on the statue of MbS. He can also try Pakistan by tying himself to gates of one of their newly built CCGTs. And see how well that goes for him.
The climate warming is real. There are many organisations that aim to promote awareness in a more persuasive and less patronising way. For instance, I suggest you have someone from the Climate Action Unit at UCL (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/climate-action-unit/about-us).
It's not just youth that is ignored its everyone. We live in an increasingly authoritarian Police state and there was only ever a theatrical show of "democracy" in the UK. Eastendersc Westminster Edition is purely for entertainment. Sadly the lessons of history point to how reluctant those in real power are to relinquish control and it never happens peacefully, and even when it does happen its usually a temporary thing and Capital regains control ultimately. I think they know we are in the climate and overpop7lation endgame and are just extracting maximum assets during the controlled collapse. I also think those at the very top now realise that they no longer need cannon fodder or large numbers of workers due to advancements intechnology and robotics and so would gladly facilitate as massive depopulation of earth and return it to their ideological " Garden of Eden" state with just their select few chosen elites and a few essential lackeys to do their bidding. I am an optomist but sadly don't see any peaceful or happy ending for humanity as this perpetual cycle repeats again. The only small chance I guess is to enlighten everybody to what is actually going on and motivate them to act beyond their own short term blinkered self interested existence of surviving hand to mouth on a daily basis. I guess our hopes lie with you young people spreading the word, but I fear much more drastic actions will be necessary and even then it may be too late for most. This may in the very long term be beneficial for other life on this planet once humanities toxic legacy has had time to be cleansed by Gaia. Good luck, if I can help in a meaningful way let me know, thanks Simon