This was a timely reminder of how easily we can bullshit ourselves and that patching up industrial civilisation with technical 'solutions' only leads to more harm. A few thoughts I had during the conversation:
1) I read or heard somewhere (could've been Jason Hickel's book), that the limit to the amount of extraction that earth systems can regenerate is 50bn tonnes per year. I'm not sure how this is apportioned or calculated, but the point was that we are currently up to 80bn tonnes and tracking GDP growth i.e. doubling every 25 years.
2) The point about revolution not being planned but becoming inevitable once certain social parameters had crossed boundaries. I often think this was the case in April 2019, when XR really burst onto the scene. The realisation had permeated many peoples minds that we had exceeded the biophysical limits of reality, our governments didn't have a clue or didn't want to, and the pressure built up for action. If it hadn't have been XR it would have been something else, maybe not as peaceful...which could still happen.
3) The point about humanity's greatest technical achievement was an amazing insight. I'd never really thought about it in this way and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. Speaking as someone who writes software for a living, I totally agree that to be able to live in place for many generations, without causing harm to the wider environment, is far more of an achievement than anything we've done with computers.
It's confusing to me that the simple mechanism (call it AA) of "put money in to take more out" isn't recognized as what is unsustainable. Yes, that's "the heart of the system" and "our way of life." I think Max has it quite right that nearly all our well intended efforts to solve the multiplying crises caused by AA are designed to perpetuate, nor resolve AA.
His point about the Bolsheviks is without merit. That revolution benefitted the ruling class by tearing apart the peasant class that owned their own land and knew how to take care of themselves without global industrial civilization. 400,000 were killed and a million enslaved on 'collective farms' just in one region, all to feed the industrializing cities full of people for the hierarchy.
From taking care of themselves to being enslaved to take care of everyone but themselves. Please make a note of this.
What an enjoyable conversation!
Max comes from such an interesting angle to present, as you say, quite a profound series of observations. Wonderful!!
As always, thank you for sharing Rachel.
Pete
This was a timely reminder of how easily we can bullshit ourselves and that patching up industrial civilisation with technical 'solutions' only leads to more harm. A few thoughts I had during the conversation:
1) I read or heard somewhere (could've been Jason Hickel's book), that the limit to the amount of extraction that earth systems can regenerate is 50bn tonnes per year. I'm not sure how this is apportioned or calculated, but the point was that we are currently up to 80bn tonnes and tracking GDP growth i.e. doubling every 25 years.
2) The point about revolution not being planned but becoming inevitable once certain social parameters had crossed boundaries. I often think this was the case in April 2019, when XR really burst onto the scene. The realisation had permeated many peoples minds that we had exceeded the biophysical limits of reality, our governments didn't have a clue or didn't want to, and the pressure built up for action. If it hadn't have been XR it would have been something else, maybe not as peaceful...which could still happen.
3) The point about humanity's greatest technical achievement was an amazing insight. I'd never really thought about it in this way and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. Speaking as someone who writes software for a living, I totally agree that to be able to live in place for many generations, without causing harm to the wider environment, is far more of an achievement than anything we've done with computers.
As stated, a profound conversation..loved it!
Hello Rachael and thanks a lot for your powerful podcast! At the end , Max talks about some people, do you have the links or their names?
Thank you!
It's confusing to me that the simple mechanism (call it AA) of "put money in to take more out" isn't recognized as what is unsustainable. Yes, that's "the heart of the system" and "our way of life." I think Max has it quite right that nearly all our well intended efforts to solve the multiplying crises caused by AA are designed to perpetuate, nor resolve AA.
Here's a list of the Top 100 crises caused by AA https://synapse9.com/_r3ref/100CrisesTable.pdf
Here's a true path for moving beyond AA, call it SS https://synapse9.com/_EnTrans/2022-UN-Plans-AFreshDesignForSteering.pdf
His point about the Bolsheviks is without merit. That revolution benefitted the ruling class by tearing apart the peasant class that owned their own land and knew how to take care of themselves without global industrial civilization. 400,000 were killed and a million enslaved on 'collective farms' just in one region, all to feed the industrializing cities full of people for the hierarchy.
From taking care of themselves to being enslaved to take care of everyone but themselves. Please make a note of this.