Absolutely winning, be good to hear from Antonio what it is we are fighting towards. Great analysis - and then? What will a functioning European society look like - because it will not look like this. Agrarian localism? Commons governance? Time to get small picture, look at the granualar detail of day to day life of a liveable future.
Another great interview! Again you bring the conversation around to human society as the one thing we need to pay attention to in order to address climate and ecological change. Until we change our orientation towards one another, we will not change our orientation towards nature.
Thank you Rachel and Antonio for talking about deeper issues and not trying to sell a green revolution in energy.
Too many humans using too many natural resources and producing too much pollution, and generating extinction level global warming. What could go wrong? Everything?
Absurd. Take a look at the electrification in Finland and Norway, e.g. the electrification of construction industry. All those diesel generators and machines, you know what I'm talking about? Of course that if you think renewables suck, because they are intermittent, you think that the only way to maintain an appropriate level of society is the "American" way. But you don't need lithium for batteries, looks like you didn't know that. Just study battery chemistry and consider how much investment has goine into fossil fuels over the history of civilization and where is the battery technology with a fraction of investment now.
I wish there were more links in your shownotes. I couldn't just take Antionio's claims about declining diesel at face value. After a good deal of searching, I found the UNdata website, and downloaded US statistics. The UNdata site does not offer aggregate world statistics, and I'm not set up to automate that much aggregation. I plugged the values into a spreadsheet and made a chart. Peak US refinery production of gas & diesel was 2018, and peak US consumption of gas & diesel was 2007. Many ways to interpret that data.
Turiel's apparent lack of understanding of electric vehicles and their performance casts some doubt on his other pronouncements. Pointing to an example of diminished hydro in Norway is not convincing. Yet Turiel's general thesis was interesting and plausible. If the energy transition--with a dramatically improved international grid--does not occur rapidly, we are likely to face both energy scarcity and militarization. Does this not argue for intensifying our efforts in making this transition successfully and thus reducing our dependence on fossil fuels?
This is such an important perspective. As gut-wrenching as it is - there is something about Antonio's analysis that feels centred and realistic. Even though I still think localism is the way I fear nothing will change by design unless we elect a government that is willing to buck the world order. In the UK I don't see any existing party pushing for this so it's going to need a new party to take up the challenge. I wish it was the Greens but I fear their outlook is still too close to the status quo.
A real problem for a new party is going to be how to engage the public without frightening them off with tales of collapse but I am sure that more savvy minds than mine could work that out!
Thanks, Rachel for yet another brilliant contributor.
Rachel, you are much appreciated. I have never been disappointed, but I don't have an hour to spend this time. Would you please indicate the start time for discussion/definition of Eco–Fascism ? Thanks.
One of the best. Amazing overview. Super clear. Not a lot of positive dreaming of how the world might be better, since that’s not his job(I guess!) but Without been gloomy as heck as some other people who see where its at can be. Deep bows 🙇🏼♂️
This is essential listening. Very wide ranging, and ties a lot of the threads together. Thanks Rachel and Antonio.
Also very interesting in the light of this week's Iberian power blackout, whose cause is still officially unknown but I don't think Antonio has much doubt. Certainly the Spanish renewables "bubble" which he talks about in the interview is interesting in the light of this week's events. I get the feeling that, even if the technical information on the reasons for the shutdown turns out to be fairly watertight, Spain's often-demonstrated ability to perpetuate controversies over the cause of its calamaties may come to the fore once again.
On that note, six months have now gone by since the Valencia floods and while at international level that disaster has turned into a climate change meme, in Spain the main focuse is on the Valencia Community regional president who took a 4 hour lunch while the floodwaters were rising and has since clung to power, accusing central government of errors and distracting attention from fuller analysis and rebuilding issues.
Absolutely winning, be good to hear from Antonio what it is we are fighting towards. Great analysis - and then? What will a functioning European society look like - because it will not look like this. Agrarian localism? Commons governance? Time to get small picture, look at the granualar detail of day to day life of a liveable future.
Another great interview! Again you bring the conversation around to human society as the one thing we need to pay attention to in order to address climate and ecological change. Until we change our orientation towards one another, we will not change our orientation towards nature.
Thank you Rachel and Antonio for talking about deeper issues and not trying to sell a green revolution in energy.
Too many humans using too many natural resources and producing too much pollution, and generating extinction level global warming. What could go wrong? Everything?
Too many things!
Check out the big financial corporations like Black Rock. They are bringing back a rentier economy.
Absurd. Take a look at the electrification in Finland and Norway, e.g. the electrification of construction industry. All those diesel generators and machines, you know what I'm talking about? Of course that if you think renewables suck, because they are intermittent, you think that the only way to maintain an appropriate level of society is the "American" way. But you don't need lithium for batteries, looks like you didn't know that. Just study battery chemistry and consider how much investment has goine into fossil fuels over the history of civilization and where is the battery technology with a fraction of investment now.
I am surprised when he said diesel production is down 15% compared to 2015-2017 levels.
That is quite worrisome.
Is there a place where I could find diesel production statistics on the Internet?
I wish there were more links in your shownotes. I couldn't just take Antionio's claims about declining diesel at face value. After a good deal of searching, I found the UNdata website, and downloaded US statistics. The UNdata site does not offer aggregate world statistics, and I'm not set up to automate that much aggregation. I plugged the values into a spreadsheet and made a chart. Peak US refinery production of gas & diesel was 2018, and peak US consumption of gas & diesel was 2007. Many ways to interpret that data.
Instead of invading Africa why doesn't Europe do a deal with Canada? Seems like a really good time to do this.
Turiel's apparent lack of understanding of electric vehicles and their performance casts some doubt on his other pronouncements. Pointing to an example of diminished hydro in Norway is not convincing. Yet Turiel's general thesis was interesting and plausible. If the energy transition--with a dramatically improved international grid--does not occur rapidly, we are likely to face both energy scarcity and militarization. Does this not argue for intensifying our efforts in making this transition successfully and thus reducing our dependence on fossil fuels?
This is such an important perspective. As gut-wrenching as it is - there is something about Antonio's analysis that feels centred and realistic. Even though I still think localism is the way I fear nothing will change by design unless we elect a government that is willing to buck the world order. In the UK I don't see any existing party pushing for this so it's going to need a new party to take up the challenge. I wish it was the Greens but I fear their outlook is still too close to the status quo.
A real problem for a new party is going to be how to engage the public without frightening them off with tales of collapse but I am sure that more savvy minds than mine could work that out!
Thanks, Rachel for yet another brilliant contributor.
Rachel, you are much appreciated. I have never been disappointed, but I don't have an hour to spend this time. Would you please indicate the start time for discussion/definition of Eco–Fascism ? Thanks.
One of the best. Amazing overview. Super clear. Not a lot of positive dreaming of how the world might be better, since that’s not his job(I guess!) but Without been gloomy as heck as some other people who see where its at can be. Deep bows 🙇🏼♂️
This is essential listening. Very wide ranging, and ties a lot of the threads together. Thanks Rachel and Antonio.
Also very interesting in the light of this week's Iberian power blackout, whose cause is still officially unknown but I don't think Antonio has much doubt. Certainly the Spanish renewables "bubble" which he talks about in the interview is interesting in the light of this week's events. I get the feeling that, even if the technical information on the reasons for the shutdown turns out to be fairly watertight, Spain's often-demonstrated ability to perpetuate controversies over the cause of its calamaties may come to the fore once again.
On that note, six months have now gone by since the Valencia floods and while at international level that disaster has turned into a climate change meme, in Spain the main focuse is on the Valencia Community regional president who took a 4 hour lunch while the floodwaters were rising and has since clung to power, accusing central government of errors and distracting attention from fuller analysis and rebuilding issues.
I wrote a book on what can we do and how to get there, is in beta version, open to all contributors: https://www.gofundme.com/f/empowering-change-a-book-to-build-just-societies
I am very much looking forward to this episode by your description!!