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Jack Santa Barbara's avatar

That was a great interview with Tim. As he was speaking I couldn't help wondering if he is familiar with ecological economics, because much of what he discussed is reflected in this reframing of economic theory. Thermodynamics plans a big part in ecological economics, because it is based on science and recognizes that the transformation of matter by energy must have biophysical limits, and therefore the economy must have limits to how much matter, or material throughput, it consumes.

The other thing that occurred to me was his description of physics applying to social issues - especially the issue of the distribution of energy or matter (with relatively little concentrated and the majority diffuse. ) He seems to imply that this principle also applied to social situations ( there will always be a few rich, powerful people and the majority will be poor and ruled). Social systems are different from physical systems and we should not carry over principles from one area to another. Justice dictates a more even (not necessarily equal) distribution of wealth and resources. Ecological economics also has a strong ethical component, and addresses this issue as well. Thanks for what you do and for the opportunity to comment on these interesting interviews.

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Anupriya Dasgupta's avatar

I think of this very much as an addiction problem on an individual behavioural level. We don’t eat as individuals connected to a body that understands how much it needs to eat, including knowing when to not overeat, we eat as individuals connected to a body that is disconnected and is disordered by addictive behaviours, borne out of fear and some illusion of control, that make the stomach a somewhat “sinking” one (like a blackhole). I think a similar idea is that we live largely in cultures that hoard and do not grieve, do not collectively lament death in ritual ways that can make sense of why people die in the ways they do and how communities can then band against those causes (like crow murder investigations: crows come together to figure out how one of them died or was hurt) when so many deaths in these systems are caused by the systems themselves (often in insidious and hard to see trickle down ways, and we are likely gaslit about them anyway) and when exploitation on a daily level is just normal and cannot be raged against (or if you do you’re not ‘coping’ correctly, which is a notion that also fractures this connection from our living bodies, but why should I cope at all?)

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