Sep 8, 2022 • 1HR 18M

How Systems Malfunction | Trevor Hilder

And how to rehabilitate them with values

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Rachel Donald
Planet: Critical is the podcast for a world in crisis. We face severe climate, energy, economic and political breakdown. Journalist Rachel Donald interviews those confronting the crisis, revealing what's really going on—and what needs to be done.
Episode details

Trevor Hilder is an IT expert and cybernetics specialist who worked with Stafford Beer, developing the Moral Modalities Framework based on Beer’s own Viable System Model.


Trevor joins me to explain how systems malfunction, why organisations crumble under complexity, and how to build resilient systems by infusing them with values. He explains the Viable System Model, walking us through the key components based on cybernetics and management theory.

We discuss the universal laws of organising and how to apply the VSM to the climate crisis, politics and globalisation. Trevor also teaches the Viable System Model to organisations and individuals. If you’re interested in learning more, email him:

Planet: Critical investigates why the world is in crisis—and what to do about it.

© Rachel Donald