Sep 8, 2022 • 1HR 18M

How Systems Malfunction | Trevor Hilder

And how to rehabilitate them with values

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It's a critical time for our planet. We face severe ecological, economic and energy crises. Journalist Rachel Donald interviews experts confronting those crises head on, revealing the big picture of what's really going on.
Episode details

Trevor Hilder is an IT expert and cybernetics specialist who worked with Stafford Beer, developing the Moral Modalities Framework based on Beer’s own Viable System Model.


Trevor joins me to explain how systems malfunction, why organisations crumble under complexity, and how to build resilient systems by infusing them with values. He explains the Viable System Model, walking us through the key components based on cybernetics and management theory.

We discuss the universal laws of organising and how to apply the VSM to the climate crisis, politics and globalisation. Trevor also teaches the Viable System Model to organisations and individuals. If you’re interested in learning more, email him:

Planet: Critical investigates why the world is in crisis—and what to do about it.

© Rachel Donald